Interlogix's response really doesn't make sense. These boxes were all over the place and a lot of the audio you heard that day was going through Category 5e or Cat 6 cables. Each device has a communication port with two terminals, which are indicated for the sake of convenience as A and B. The following factors affect how far one can reliably transmit at a given data rate: Cable length: At a given frequency, the signal is attenuated by the cable as a function of length. Figure 1. RS232 is now officially known as EIA/TIA-232-F. EIA/TIA stands for Electronic Industries Association/Telecommunications Industries Association, and the “F” indicates the latest update. Login. TIA set the limit at 500MHz, which is double the CAT6 standard. We're talking. Can DC and AC cables run in the same conduit. Copyright © 1998-2021 engineering.com, Inc. All rights reserved.Unauthorized reproduction or linking forbidden without expressed written permission. Google cable capacitance and line speed. However, note that there are other considerations regarding the maximum number of RS-485 interfaces that can be attached to the bus and that maximum would be affected by wire gauge. In this tech support Tuesday Andy Chatfield reviews the RS-232 and RS-485 PTZ camera control options. To exchange data between nodes on a network, the most commonly used tools are line drivers and receivers. Thanks everyone for the continued help. The CAT6A cable can extend up to 100 meters and transfer data at a maximum data rate of 10Gbps (10GBASE-T). A balanced system uses two wires, other than ground, to transmit data. In other words, if one wire is transmitting a high, the other wire will be transmitting a low, and vice versa. Active 3 years, 3 months ago. Cat6 speed is 250 MHz. The access control system interfaces into the network through TCP/IP. (That's a joke.) Cat5e, in contrast, performs up to 100 MHz. From the introduction above, Cat6 cable offers the performance of up to 250 MHz while Cat7 cable is rated for transmission frequency of up to 600 MHz. Close this window and log in. Commercial Ethernet cable is unshielded, but some i ndustrial cable suppliers make a shielded version for noisy environments. I wouldn’t know if 18/4 cable in general, or the specific variant of that cable the installer is proposing to use, is suitable for RS-485 in your application (or at all). If you need more information on the cable & protocol, refer to the article below. RS-485 can be transmitted at a distance of up to 1200m (4000 feet) when the data rate is below 100k bps. Good luck. If distance > 80m, then use extender or repeater. Regarding your comparison of RS485 and Ethernet: RS485 … I would stick with the manufacturers specs on this one simply because manufacturers get picky about supporting configurations that do not adhere to their specs when it comes to something not working correctly. (Speed of operation depends on length of the line ) Modbus/TCP will be sent at speed of your Ethernet connection Argh! The cable it's self isn't that important. The RS-232, RS-422 and RS-485 designations refer to interfaces for digital data transmission. 88. If distance > 80m, then use RS485 cable (4 wire model or 2 twisted pairs), on CAT6 and RS485 cables for communication, UPVC Conduits Vs Pre-GI Cable Trays for Outdoor Use, Corrosion in Pre-GI and Hot Dip Galvanized (HDG) Structures. RS485 is a legacy technology based on asynchronous bidirectional bi-directional serial communication. By far, the most common speed for Ethernet today is 100 Mbit/s. At 400' speed/distance likely disappears as an issue. Click Here to join Tek-Tips and talk with other members! And, in a pinch, you can use the same Category 5e or 6 cable to run data! So there are all these nuances that we should be aware of. That portion is easily configured through our network. This means the copper conductors are twisted tighter. Pay attention of the shield connection and for long distance networks is recommended to use ISO tranciever like ADM2483 ( Datasheet here ). Is CAT5 cable good enough for RS-485 vs “true” RS-485 cable. Cat6 and Cat6a cables have their identifiers printed on the cable jacket itself — Category 6 or Category 6a, respectively. I guess we'll use the 18/4 as they have advised. Already a Member? CAN vs RS485 / Geek Area / Communications / CAN BUS / Geek Area / Communications / RS485 / CAN vs RS485. That ratio seems very conservative. TCP/IP is a reliable and stable connection. The connection can be faster when better RJ45 cables (for example Cat 6 stand-ard) are used. https://blog.robotiq.com/what-is-rs485-communication-protocol. RS-485 can be delivered over significant distances on Category rated cables, but speed, the quality of installation, and the field conditions the cable is exposed to matter. * Another choice is the same cable commonly used in the twisted pair Ethernet cabling. I'm a terrible estimator! What Factors Limit the RS-485 Data Rate? USR-TCP232-410s RS232 / RS485 Serial to Ethernet Adapter/IP Device Server Ethernet Converter Support DHCP/DNS. 4M over 100m.of cat6 works fine. Thanks for all of the help. Both Cat5e and Cat6 are twisted pair cables that use copper wires, typically 4 twisted pairs in each cable. Note that both types of cables use the same connector — RJ45 — so that is not a way to differentiate between them. Not to dis RS485, as it's a solid solution that has been around for 30 years - i't simply that a single-technology infrastructure is often easier to maintain. $44.88 $ 44. Although probably not a factor here, out of curiosity what is the maximum number of RS-485 devices you expect on a bus section? It can use existing intranet/internet network. I'm actually a bit surprised that your access controllers don't have native Ethernet connectivity. The typical capacitance of 15 pF/ft and a characteristic impedance of 100 ohms meet the electrical requirements for RS-485 cables, although impedances … Interlogix claims that Ca5/6 used on their SNAPP bus can have "undesired results" and cause intermittent communication failures between the remote readers and the main panel. Thanks for all of the helpful posts - lots to think about. Cat6A speed is at least 500 MHz. Figure 2. At higher data rates, the cable length must be reduced as shown in the chart below. The specification for Cat6 features more stringent specifications for crosstalk and system noise, and provides performance of up to 250 MHz. Line drivers and receivers are commonly used to exchange data between two or more points (nodes) on a network. If distance between router and master inverter < 80m, then use CAT6 cable (8 wire model or 4 twisted pairs). Using cat5/6, the cable resistance can often be the first limit you hit, but using thicker cored cable overcomes this. Cat6 Vs Cat6a carries different roles in the field of computers. This cable, commonly referred to as Category 5 cable, is … The installers checked with Interlogix, and they flat out refused to allow us to use our existing Cat6 runs to connect the remote controllers ... they wouldn't honor the warranty if there was a problem. For COMM, Cat 6 is for sure superior to 18/4, that wasn't in question, it was if 18/4 was really usable. Note that the current must be within the ampacity rating of the wire gauge in the Cat 6 cable, and the cable pair and overall jacketing must be able to safely tolerate the resultant heat rise. This requires higher specification patch panels, wall jacks, and RJ45 connectors. 4.3 out of 5 stars 29. A long cable can act like a transmission line, in which case, care should be taken to properly connect the network. The maximum distance of RS-485 without using a repeater is 1.2km at baud rates up to 90Kbps. For that reason, if you are setting up a network with Category 6 shielded cables, you should use Cat 6 shielded couplers and jacks. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework. Once we have it up and working, I'll report back with how things went! RS-485 is a spec for a higher voltage, long haul version of RS-232 serial connection. Get it as soon as Mon, Apr 5. 5. I can't understand why Cat6 wouldn't be acceptable here. Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. However, t… For example, assuming a good quality link, at 1Mbps, 700' is probably achievable over Cat 6. The RS-422 and RS-485 interfaces are widely used in the industry for connecting various equipment.The table shows the main differences between RS-232, RS-422 and RS-485 i… Source Top Quality 4 Pair Cat6 Utp 24 Awg Flat Network Cable Supplier, 4 Pair Cat6 Utp 24 … 300/500V 24AWG RS485 Cable for Communication … Cat5e utp cable,Cat6 … April 4, … Another quick way to tell the two cables apart is to note that Cat6a cables are much thicker and bulkier than Cat6 cables. Consider using RS485 to Ethernet gateways instead of running cables end-to-end. Longer cable runs will result in greater attenuation. If you need more information on the cable & protocol, refer to the article below. Anyway, let us know how you make out. However, they will only become grounded if the jack they are placed in has its shielding tied to ground. If sending multiple rs485s on one cable, crosstalk can be an issue, so I always spec cat6 for this Can reach 10 Mbit/s at 10m. RS485 only addresses layer 1 (the physical layer) CAN also adds layer 2 (the data link layer) in the OSI model. The RS-232 standard is better known as a normal computer COM port or serial port (although Ethernet, FireWire and USB can also be considered as a serial port). RS-485 enabled systems to have multiple master nodes in a single system. The connection between two or more elements (drivers and receivers) should … I found out today that the wire needs to provide both comm (1 pair) and voltage (6-12 volts). Cat6A cable is made and terminated to tighter tolerances than Cat6. (Per the original post, delivering power is not a factor here.). Cable to use between Master and Slave Inverter, If distance between master and slave inverter < 80m, then use LAN CAT6 cable (4 wire model or 2 twisted pairs) since it will be cheaper. See Figure 2. - Quora. 6. Your installers do not know the difference between communications cabling and control cabling. FREE Shipping by Amazon. RS485 is now TIA-485. CAN vs. RS485 White Paper Overview CAN (Controller Area Network) and RS485 are popular standards in fieldbus systems. Ask Question Asked 8 years, 10 months ago. Inexpensive Ethernet cables (Cat 5, Cat 5e, and Cat 6) can, and are often, used for many short RS-485 networks. Category 6 cable uses thicker-gauge wire, increased shielding, and more pair twists per inch to reduce signal noise and interference. As RS485 only addresses layer 1 (the physical layer) and CAN also adds layer 2 (the data link layer) in the OSI model, it is difficult to compare the two standards. That will depend on how much current is drawn, and consequently what worst case voltage drop the equipment can tolerate due to the current and cable resistance. 2. In fact, there is no such thing as an RS485 cable since RS485 is a protocol for serial communication (like between inverters) and Ethernet is a protocol for carrying internet data (between router and inverter) whereas CAT6 is a cable standard. Reliable data communications can be difficult in the presence of induced noise, ground level differences, impedance mismatches, failure to effectively bias for idle line conditions, and other hazards associated with installation of a network. The message is that you can have high performance RS-485 cables for most any environment yet maintain maximum system performance. *(Disclaimer for all advise given)--'Version Dependent'. We have three buildings on our campus, and each one will be upgraded to automated door access control. This was often achieved using a spline (a longitudinal separator) in the wiring, which isolates each of the four pairs of twisted wire. The tighter specifications guarantee that 100-meter runs of Category 6 are capable of 1000 Mbit/s transfer speeds. The RS-485 transmission system requires twisted-pair cables for best results, to maximize its noise rejection characteristics. Definitely yes, the CAT5/5E or CAT6 cable is perfect for industrial use of RS485 network. It is better to educate oneself on RS485 and Ethernet because you would be facing customers in the networking field and very familiar with these terms. RS232 and RS485 are standards for data cables. To keep up with the times, we’ll continue to call them TIA-232 and TIA-485 from here on out.Another option, RS422, is also worth a mention. Hi everyone: We're in the process of installing an Interlogix TruPortal door access control system on our campus, and we're seeing if it would be feasible to connect the systems together so we can have one user database and event log. Cable construction: Cat5,Cat5e, and Cat6 24AWG twisted pair are very common cable types used for RS-485 systems. Would Cat6 still be a contender, or is that going to force me to RS-485 now that we have a voltage requirement? The system is called balanced, because the signal on one wire is ideally the exact opposite of the signal on the second wire. Nevertheless, this paper However, I would recommend that you ask the installer if they have ever used that 18/4 in an RS-485 installation, and if so, if the circumstances were similar (or even more stringent) to yours. So 80m is the practical limit for CAT6 cables. 10 \$\begingroup\$ I have a serial comms project coming up. *Tek-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. The signals on the two wire… A number of boards with RS-485 interfaces need to communicate. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail. Dermis and feline can be divorced by manifold methods. There are many cables available meeting the recommendations of RS-422 and RS-485, made specifically for that application. 4000' maximum distance implies that the speed is relatively low, so 700' on Cat 6 would seem possible. These could be complete non-issues, or they could be important - all will depend on current and resistance. The 22 AWG cable may be too small for the controls signal (voltage drop, current rating…), but it’s much better for the communications signal. The shields of the two connectors in our shielded Cat 6 cables are electrically tied together via the drain wire. they are very different physically but do a similar kind of job. unlike RS485, where you can only link up 32 readers or controllers on a same line. Both RS-485 and controller area network (CAN) interface protocols have been around since the mid-1980s, when they were introduced as communication standards. At the system card, I can log in, assign users, schedules, etc. An RS485 cable can carry data upto 4000ft (or 1.2km) @ 100kbps as shown below. Even though Wi-Fi is a user-friendly technology, but we cannot deny the importance of ethernet cables. In these two terminals the communication cable is connected so that all the devices that take part in the communication are connected in parallel.All the ‘A’ terminals must be connected together and all the ‘B’ terminals must be connected together respectively.In order to avoid errors when many devices are connect… 1. (Assumes no odd issues with noise or other problems in the shared pathways - RS485 is reasonably robust since it uses balanced signaling and the Cat 6 grade cable also helps to … Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Privacy Policy. CAN (Controller Area Network) and RS485 are both popular standards in fieldbus systems. I did some checking today, and it appears that my estimate on cable run length was sorely wrong. Already a member? Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical computer professional community.It's easy to join and it's free. Instrumentation Interview Preparation https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxLRUG9yyNkGELpTfEPh_rF4btInoP-s4 This allows 10 Gbp/s (Gigabits per second) up to 328 feet (100 meters). CAT6e CAT6e is not an actual standard. Well ... the saga continues. Interlogix has approved the use of 18/4 wire for the comm needs. Simply put, this means there are two wires, other than ground, that are used to transmit the signal. Cat6 would be fine. A predecessor to TIA-485, RS422 lacks a feature that allows data to be sent over a single pair of wires. At this speed E thernet can use CAT5 or CAT6 cable. Depends on capacity of communication cable (Ex- 100m with Cat6). The characteristic impedance of the cable is recommended to be 120 ohms. Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden. With the invention of Wi-Fi, many people thought that these cables would become obsolete but they all were wrong. rs485 is basically 2 wire logic (at times 3 wires) it understands the diff between the voltage of these 2 wires and works in an addressable / … The result is lower data rate performance. RS-485 is designed to be a balanced system. The real breakthrough for the InstaSnake was the first Obama Inauguration. RS232 vs RS485. On Cat6 vs Cat7 comparison, transmission frequency and cabling length are two important factors for one to consider. 10-Gigabit Ethernet speeds are achievable when reducing cable lengths to less than 50 meters. What is the difference between an RS485 cable and a Cat6 cable? If the answer is “no”, I would be wary. An RS485 cable can carry data upto 4000ft (or 1.2km) @ 100kbps as shown below. libellis - I really appreciate your expertise and knowledge in helping us figure this out. They connect using this SNAPP bus system that's connected with RS-485 cable. The graph below shows guideline distances versus data rate by the RS-485 standard. Interestingly enough, the cable is NOT carrying voltage ... only COMM. Thank you for helping keep Tek-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.The Tek-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action. Cable to use between Internet Router and Master Inverter. When it comes to connecting other add-on modules though, they apparently don't connect through TCP/IP. A CAT6 cable can theoretically carry data for 100m but after 80m, there would be signal attenuation and it would be impractical. Although probably not a factor here, out of curiosity what is the maximum number of RS-485 devices you expect on a bus section? So 80m is the practical limit for CAT6 cables. Viewed 79k times 22. Good luck, Keep in mind that native RS-485 distance will depend upon the speed it's running at over the particular cable type, and the speed wasn't identified. RS-485 was an evolutionary step from previous transceiver (physical layer) standards like RS-423, RS-422, and RS-232. Distance Details. The connection speed ranges from 10Mbits to 100Mbits. A CAT6 cable can theoretically carry data for 100m but after 80m, there would be signal attenuation and it would be impractical. Another version of the CAT6 standard is available; it is labeled as CAT6A and is considered an advancement of CAT6.
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